"Super Rare advertising/marketing pieces"

[Chris Webster]

Any thoughts about this set of PRR cars that recently sold on feebay?
4 CUSTOM 2 Rail Pennsylvania (PRR) O SCALE Pullman Passenger Cars-RARE MARKETING

[bob turner]

Really difficult to tell the quality of the cars from the photos - at least one has Lobaugh style trucks, so for me that's a plus. Ad says brass, but I wonder if these things are cast aluminum? Or Kasiner extrusions?

That said, they certainly appear to be rare, if that is what one wants. The price seems reasonable; under $250/car with a nice case. Compare that with the beat-up Walthers cars now offered around the same price - or the GGD cars of a similar prototype at $1200 for four.

Maybe the purchaser can find this forum and offer some notes?

[Carey Williams]

Yes a neat carrying case with graphics ....but cars were Kaisners ...with the Lobaugh or Lobaugh like trucks .
I saw the set at Stout's...it sold for 300+-....so if resold for 850 someone did well

Neat and wonderful but I was able to resist ... therapy is working .....

Cheers Carey

[De Bruin]

Very interesting, all post-war plans and named/numbered accurately.
Imperial Meadows 4-4-2 ACF '48, Tippicanoe Rapids 10-6 PS '48,
Harbor Cove 3 Bdrm w/Buffet Lounge w/Barbor shop, Secretary Svc, Shower PS '48 (kind of signature '48 Broadway Ltd. car)
#4608 68 seat Diner ACF '49
The "return to" on the carrying case, one "M.F. Jackson, Asst General Passenger Agent" apparently got a post-war promotion
as he's listed as the Asst. General Baggage Agent at Philadelphia in the 1945 guide.

Naturally the photo's defy close examination but sides and roof appear to be a single piece so Kasiners would make sense . The underbody parts appear to be the usual basswood block and dowel, I agree with Bob the trucks look like Lobaughs, the car ends appear to be castings, either white metal, bronze or aluminum. I wouldn't have guessed Kasiners as they did not catalog any of these four cars so evidently this was a custom or special order.
I also wouldn't have guessed Carey saw these and passed on them, kudos for self control, I would failed that at $300.
8^)

I'll point out that Diner #4608 was semi-permanently paired with a Kitchen-Dorm #4609, so conjecture perhaps there's one or more other four car sets that matched this. These four would all be appropriate for the '48 Broadway which of course was the premier Blue Line train on the PRR, there would be at least six more revenue car plans for that train besides these. (12 Bdrm, 6 Bdrm-Buffet, Kitchen-Dorm, 12 Duplex-4 DbBr, 18 Rmte, Observation Lounge etc.)

[Chris Webster]

I saw the set at Stout's...it sold for 300+-....so if resold for 850 someone did well

Thanks for pointing that out. Turns out that the cars were part of Stout's July 11, 2024 auction. The lot sold for $250, so the buyer would have paid $297.50 after the 19% Buyer's Premium.

so if resold for 850 someone did well

Only if the ebay buyer pays...

The price seems reasonable; under $250/car with a nice case. Compare that with the beat-up Walthers cars now offered around the same price - or the GGD cars of a similar prototype at $1200 for four.

I agree, but $250/car is still far more than I'd pay for PRR cars...

The "return to" on the carrying case, one "M.F. Jackson, Asst General Passenger Agent" apparently got a post-war promotion
as he's listed as the Asst. General Baggage Agent at Philadelphia in the 1945 guide.

I was wondering if the "Return to" label was real or if it was an embellishment by the case builder. Was Kaisner making cars back in the early 50s? Would the PRR advertising department have needed models of their cars back then?

[De Bruin]

.....I was wondering if the "Return to" label was real or if it was an embellishment by the case builder.

Counterfeit adhesive label and by implication a counterfeit case? hmmmm...ok.... so much for the sales margin on this.

Was Kaisner making cars back in the early 50s?

Kasiner was making models in the late 1940's up to I believe 1954, my understanding they sold the line out to Herkimer in 1954 after a fire destroyed their manufacturing capability/facility, and they (and their successor(s)) would also stamp special order/custom plans for a premium too.

Would the PRR advertising department have needed models of their cars back then?

Lots of roads displayed models at their promotional events, trade shows, industry fairs back then, UP's Kemtron cars? Santa Fe at the Museum of Science & Industry? why not PRR? Seems plausible to me.

[Carey Williams]

There were many promotional O scale trains ....
Railroad Fair in Chicago 1948-9 had several O scale layouts were the various railroads were running examples of their finest trains .
Great Northern had several model of the Empire Builder on display at stations across the route.
Bob Smith CLW did several sets of PA's for Santa Fe executives .
I doubt anyone would fake the case ....

Guessing the buyer at Stout's is not an O scaler ...but someone who thought someone would go crazy for them as PRR promo pieces ...

Cheers Carey

[bob turner]

Looking forward to a discussion of the cars themselves. For me, and apparently Carey, the condition of the cars is paramount.

I can see, though, that for others, the label on the box is the $800 draw. My guess is that it is authentic, but it would not sway me in the least - I am reminded of folks who think Babe Ruth's sweaty jersey is worth millions - somehow millions means nothing to them - a game. I personally would not want that in my garage, let alone my living room.

So - were they Kasiner-like? Was the paint good, or chipped? Interiors? Decal film showing? All of these things make the difference between a $20 Kasiner and a $300 Kasiner. Um, opinion.

Here is what I think a $50 Kasiner looks like - it would not take all that much to multiply that by five . . . interior, some hand grabs, better underbody, etc.

[De Bruin]

Bob,
IMO the four cars by themselves are not $300 Kasiners by any stretch, it's all around the listing story and yes that carrying case reeks legit to me too based on appearance as well as how much work one would have to do to build one like it. I'll will defer to Carey on that since he's seen it up close. The painted address label on it is very well done in a variety of ways too....

Looks good to me, but no I'd never even consider buying this.
BTW, and opinion, the value of models built from low-end legacy passenger kits or car bodies like Kasiners are solely based on their finish quality, lighting features, provenance, and of course how well they're "flogged" on (insert your sales-venue-of-choice here.) and how well-healed the buyer might be for something they can't live without.

I still go as high as $200 for a fully lit 2R LW car body RTR
(when it's something I can't live without)

[ScaleCraft]

Maybe not fake....but not original.
Look at the pix of just the cover.
Wood is dinged and scratched, yet careful inspection reveals not one mark in the white lettering.
Probably was a shipping label, someone made a set of vinyls for it.

One would think if the passenger cars were commissioned, they would all be similar manufacture.
The Lobaughs tend to discredit that notion.