Ukraine rumors

[bob turner]

This is a great place to ask this one -

A really good friend just informed me that the Ukrainian military is full of Nazis. I hope I did not offend him, but I said "I don't think that is true; you are getting your information from the Kremlin."

But I assume there are sources being passed around the US outlining the rationalizations for the unprovoked attack. I am hoping that some of you can point me to those sources. Are they linked to the Gosar/MTG/Hawley crowd?

[healey36]

It's a complex question, and likely hyperbole by the Russian propaganda machine to justify the latest effort to seize Ukraine. I would certainly disagree with the contention that the Ukrainian Army is a new Wehrmacht (or Waffen SS), but I think we will eventually learn of isolated actions by certain elements within their army that will be nearly as egregious as those of the Russians. The history and mode of fighting in the east is quite different from what most Westerners would find acceptable. This thing has escalated to near "Total War" very rapidly, and I suspect that Putin will take it up a notch to include NBC (Nuclear/Biological/Chemical) tactics if his boys don't make significant, rapid headway in the coming weeks.

You can't paint folks with such a broad brush. Then again, you have to remember that John Demjanjuk, and a few others of his ilk, was a Ukrainian.

[robert.]

Something to read..https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment
What if we had an attack on US soil? Our president calls upon all these whacko militia groups to defend the US. They take the call to action and fight off our attackers. Would it be safe to say " We than have some bad apples fighting for our country"? Whites supremacist Neo-nazis homophobes and hateful people. All fighting to save our soil. Even a bad apple can do the right thing sometimes. I would imagine they have the same situation in the Ukraine.

[HONDO74]

I think Mr Turner would be better advised to study the history of that whole area rather than to listen to anything that is being said by the left or right. That way he could come to his own conclusions.

This whole thing started because the west was pushing for the Ukraine to become a member of NATO Something that Russia didn't want to happen. They didn't want NATO troupes and western missiles on their border any more than we wanted Russian missiles in Cuba on our border in 1962 when we almost went to a nuclear war. JFK and Khrushchev worked that one out. Russia took the missiles out of Cuba and we took ours out of Turkey.

When Germany invaded through the Ukraine during WW2 There were many Nazi collaborators and sympathizers in the western Ukraine. One of the worst slaughter of Jews took place in the western Ukraine. Are there still Nazi sympathizers in the Ukraine. Probably as they are still in Germany and even in this country.

The thing that gets me is that our president can provide Europe with thousands of our military and billions of dollars to protect their borders and hasn't lifted a finger to protect our southern border.

I also remember when Trump was pushing Europe to pay what they were supposed to for their own protection and he also advised them they were becoming to dependent on Russia for oil and gas.

Which brings up another question, when is Europe going to stop buying oil and gas from Russia

[bob turner]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies - I have heard from folks with superior intellect that Ukraine was "asking for it." My impression was that Putin used the Nazi thing as his reason for the invasion. And that a large subset of a political minority here in the US buys that rationale.

[robert.]

I think Putin got pissed with the Ukraine wanting to join NATO. I also believe that the Ukraine is playing up an “underdog “ story. We may never know the real reason for this conflict.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

This whole thing started because the west was pushing for the Ukraine to become a member of NATO....

Actually pre-dates that - more that back to when the USSR broke up into individual counties; Putin wants to re-assemble the USSR and absorb all of the "provinces" and rest of the Eastern Bloc. The NATO issue came later along with the the same in the Baltics and Poland.

When Germany invaded through the Ukraine during WW2 There were many Nazi collaborators and sympathizers in the western Ukraine. One of the worst slaughter of Jews took place in the western Ukraine. Are there still Nazi sympathizers in the Ukraine. Probably as they are still in Germany and even in this country.

Some of ours were even in the WH and are still a few dubious ones in Congress. Russia (Stalin) also killed a few million in the Ukraine post-WW2.

The thing that gets me is that our president can provide Europe with thousands of our military and billions of dollars to protect their borders and hasn't lifted a finger to protect our southern border.

Two things are not remotely related; let me know when Mexico brings tanks to the TX border.

Which brings up another question, when is Europe going to stop buying oil and gas from Russia

Not all of Europe does; Germany is the egregious offender that got backed into that deal totally irresponsibly and unprepared to replace their nuclear power plants - they were warned not to do this not by Trump, but by Clinton....but the Greens forced closure of the nuclear power plants due to the Fukushima disaster. That also killed what was a growing movement to build new nuclear power plants in the US based on Thorium..... Smooth transitions don't happen and we rush from crisis to crisis....

[robert.]

We have aided the Ukraine for almost a decade.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

[HONDO74]

Which brings up another question, when is Europe going to stop buying oil and gas from Russia

Not all of Europe does; Germany is the egregious offender that got backed into that deal totally irresponsibly and unprepared to replace their nuclear power plants - they were warned not to do this not by Trump, but by Clinton....but the Greens forced closure of the nuclear power plants due to the Fukushima disaster. That also killed what was a growing movement to build new nuclear power plants in the US based on Thorium..... Smooth transitions don't happen and we rush from crisis to crisis....

War Is Raging, But Russia Is Still Paying Ukraine for Gas Flows

Ukraine is being paid in hard currency for Europe gas transit
Russian gas shipments to Europe jumped after the war started

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -gas-flows


And yet Volodymyr Zelenskyy President of Ukraine is complaining to Europe they are still buying gas from Russia (blood for gas) while he is getting paid to transport it to them

[Rufus T. Firefly]

And yet Volodymyr Zelenskyy President of Ukraine is complaining to Europe they are still buying gas from Russia (blood for gas) while he is getting paid to transport it to them

That actually makes sense - take the money from Russia so they can't spend it otherwise. The really funny thing is that Russia makes the payments probably in rubles which are not even valuable enough to use as toilet paper....

[HONDO74]

And yet Volodymyr Zelenskyy President of Ukraine is complaining to Europe they are still buying gas from Russia (blood for gas) while he is getting paid to transport it to them

That actually makes sense - take the money from Russia so they can't spend it otherwise. The really funny thing is that Russia makes the payments probably in rubles which are not even valuable enough to use as toilet paper....

Zelensky controls those pipelines through the Ukraine. He can shut them down anytime. He needs to stop being a hypocrite and just do it. Germany can also shut down the pipelines coming in to them. They need to take a crap or get off the pot.

Ukraine's President Zelensky to BBC: Blood money being paid for Russian oil
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61107725

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has accused European countries that continue to buy Russian oil of "earning their money in other people's blood".

In an interview with the BBC, President Zelensky singled out Germany and Hungary, accusing them of blocking efforts to embargo energy sales, from which Russia stands to make up to £250bn ($326bn) this year.

There has been a growing frustration among Ukraine's leadership with Berlin, which has backed some sanctions against Russia but so far resisted calls to back tougher action on oil sales.

"Some of our friends and partners understand that it is a different time now, that it is no longer an issue of business and money," Mr Zelensky told the BBC from his situation room in Kyiv on Thursday. "That it is an issue of survival."

The president also reiterated calls for more weapons to be supplied to Ukraine, saying they were not getting supplies fast enough to fend off Russia's assault.

"The United States, the United Kingdom, some European countries - they are trying to help and are helping," he said. "But still we need it sooner, sooner and faster. The key word is now."

[gregj410]

I found this YouTube video well worth the 30 minutes on why Russia has invaded Ukraine. 15m views in a month. It seems completely credible and very logical to my pea brain.

https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE

[bob turner]

I don’t have 30 minutes - how about just one reason that would make sense and justify wiping Ukraine and it’s children off the face of the earth? Just one.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I don’t have 30 minutes - how about just one reason that would make sense and justify wiping Ukraine and it’s children off the face of the earth? Just one.

There isn't one; there's none.

[gregj410]

I don’t have 30 minutes - how about just one reason that would make sense and justify wiping Ukraine and it’s children off the face of the earth? Just one.

Well Bob you had plenty of time to cry on the 2 rail forum about why you got banned from OGR. What can I say? If you don’t want to try to educate yourself than don’t start threads and ask deep questions that one may try an answer to help you understand the situation.