vaccine

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: vaccine

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:20 am

rogruth wrote:A Hilton Head area vendor in conversation with my son said the following (paraphrased); "If you are tested and told that you have Covid you must go to the hospital right away and insist that you be given the same treatment of three drugs that Trump received immediately and you won't get covid." When asked why this is not known to all the response was "They don't want people to know so there will be more deaths". To my son and me this sounded like some conspiracy theory stuff.


You nailed it - pure BS conspiracy theory stuff.

Now the question is is there any truth to any of this ( We don't think so) and where does it come from?


Small minded foolish people that are motivated by hatred.
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chuck
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Re: vaccine

Postby chuck » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:29 pm

It appears to be the teacher's union upset. J&J is the least effective.


Whenever I hear crap like that I think back to "The Princess Pride" when Inigo tells Vizzini:

"You keep using that word (inconceivable/substitute efficacy). I do not think it means what you think it means."

J&J provides immunity in 14 days. The other two require five to six weeks. The J&J vaccine actually appears to be a "broader spectrum" vaccine. The efficacy numbers have to be looked at in terms of the studies done. aka the number of subjects that took part in the trials and where/when they occurred. There is some evidence that a second dose of J&J would get their numbers even higher. As it was set up to be a single dose the original trials were done on a single dose. J&J test groups included subjects that were made up of populations with more diverse strains. It is possible that if the subject pools for the earlier vaccines includes some of the test populations that J&J used their numbers might be significantly lower. Now that the virus is mutating we may see the first two showing those lower numbers and requiring a third "booster shot".

Finally, ALL of these vaccines are designed to save lives. To keep you out of the hospital which is good for both you as an individual and the general public as it lowers the burden on the health care system. If you have a chance to get the shot, take it, no matter which one it is.

Comparing efficacy with the "normal" flu shots is not a good idea. While the numbers don't "lie", they are only a part of the equation. Flu shots often "fail" because the CDC/manufacturer guessed the wrong strain. People who got the shot were protected from a version of the flu they weren't exposed too. Cold comfort but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: vaccine

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:52 pm

chuck wrote:
It appears to be the teacher's union upset. J&J is the least effective.


Whenever I hear crap like that I think back to "The Princess Pride" when Inigo tells Vizzini:

"You keep using that word (inconceivable/substitute efficacy). I do not think it means what you think it means."


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MurphOnMillerAve
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Re: vaccine

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:39 pm

chuck wrote:....J&J provides immunity in 14 days. The other two require five to six weeks. The J&J vaccine actually appears to be a "broader spectrum" ....

I had no idea of any of that. It certainly has not been mentioned or stressed on any major news channels that I patronize: CBS ; NBC ; ABC . So, the inoculation I received a couple weeks ago still does not have me protected .

I've been touching hands and lips, nearly a hundred each Sunday.

gregj410
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Re: vaccine

Postby gregj410 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:47 pm

MurphOnMillerAve wrote:
chuck wrote:....J&J provides immunity in 14 days. The other two require five to six weeks. The J&J vaccine actually appears to be a "broader spectrum" ....

I had no idea of any of that. It certainly has not been mentioned or stressed on any major news channels that I patronize: CBS ; NBC ; ABC . So, the inoculation I received a couple weeks ago still does not have me protected .

I've been touching hands and lips, nearly a hundred each Sunday.



Who ya gonna believe? CBS, NBC, ABC or Chuck? :lol:

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chuck
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Re: vaccine

Postby chuck » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:00 pm

CBS ; NBC ; ABC . So, the inoculation I received a couple weeks ago still does not have me protected .


Two dose vaccines don't provide FULL protection till two weeks AFTER the second dose. You get some protection BEFORE this but the numbers reported are for five to six weeks AFTER the first shot or TWO weeks after the SECOND shot. This has been widely reported.

J&J stuff was discussed when it was first released. The actual MEANING was lost in the concerns over the "efficacy" numbers. Mayor of Detroit got it wrong and got a call from the White House to "explain" it when the teachers union was balking at taking J&J. Info was in "the fine print", aka the stuff you actually had to read and understand beyond the opening paragraphs. I suspect the broadcast material only had time for the headlines! I think the Times covered this stuff in depth over the last week or so.
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
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MurphOnMillerAve
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Re: vaccine

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:12 pm

gregj410 wrote:
MurphOnMillerAve wrote:
chuck wrote:....J&J provides immunity in 14 days. The other two require five to six weeks. The J&J vaccine actually appears to be a "broader spectrum" ....

I had no idea of any of that. It certainly has not been mentioned or stressed on any major news channels that I patronize: CBS ; NBC ; ABC . So, the inoculation I received a couple weeks ago still does not have me protected .

I've been touching hands and lips, nearly a hundred each Sunday.



Who ya gonna believe? CBS, NBC, ABC or Chuck? :lol:

Of course I believe Chuck and am grateful for his information and further explanation .

Well, I felt safe for a little while, at least.

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chuck
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Re: vaccine

Postby chuck » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:33 pm

Well, I felt safe for a little while, at least.


You START getting protection from the two shot variants in about two weeks. You won't get full protection till two weeks after the second dose. Some protection is better than no protection.

If you maintain safety protocols till the end of the two weeks past second dose you should be fine.

With all of the brouhaha about covid it seems to be un noticed that we didn't have much of a flu season so far. Why? Because wearing a mask, washing your hands and keeping your distance works even better against the flu!. Who's have thunk it!
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
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Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
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robert.
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Re: vaccine

Postby robert. » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:52 pm

Nobody sitting Arsehole to elbow in a sporting event. Screaming and shouting. No standing room only gin joints open. People drinking and yelling over the music. Maybe just skewed numbers.
I spend entirely too many hours a day tying my shoes

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MurphOnMillerAve
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Re: vaccine

Postby MurphOnMillerAve » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:57 pm

Frankly, I continue to be amazed that congregants continue to line-up, in lines half the length of the nave, and welcome by ministering an item of food that gies into their mouths and beings. Before the first time I did that at the outset of the pandemic, I thought I would be shunned. But I was not , and have not been. Even children, escorted by their parents , have presented themselves to me for Communion. I was quite prepared to find myself rejected upon that first occasion, and to just walk away quietly after the entire line had quitted itself . But no. And I continue to be amazed and humbled by such an intimate privilege in The Church.

Of course, I wear a mask the whole time and douse my hands thoroughly with hand sanitizer immediately previous to walking down the aisle to meet the Communicants, as well as afterwards.

gregj410
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Re: vaccine

Postby gregj410 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:04 pm

If you maintain safety protocols till the end of the two weeks past second dose you should be fine.


Notice Dr Chucks disclaimer....SHOULD BE. In all seriousness I wouldn’t get ANY medical advice on the internet and certainly not on a model train forum regardless of what one’s credentials claim to be.
In the end your gonna still have to wear your mask and stay 6’ away from every body. So chalk up the vaccination to your not gonna die from covid if the vaccination works but your still gonna have to deal with the bullshit.

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Re: vaccine

Postby E7 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:30 pm

This is better than Comedy Central! :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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chuck
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Re: vaccine

Postby chuck » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:56 pm

Of course, I wear a mask the whole time and douse my hands thoroughly with hand sanitizer immediately previous to walking down the aisle to meet the Communicants, as well as afterwards.


Yes, because you are following what should be COMMON SENSE safety protocols. The fact that a lot of people seem to be incapable or unwilling to follow them seems to fly in the face of "common sense".

I spent 31 years working at a major research university with advanced labs that had all kinds of dangerous stuff in them. In many cases you couldn't get access to the lab spaces without first going through safety training (some rather extensive) and having your card key blessed to allow access. One third of one of the buildings required you wear a moon suit to actually enter the lab. The doors were plastered with all sorts of pretty stickers in various colors and shapes with numerical modifiers to indicate whether you were about to enter an area with chemical, biological, or radiological hazards or combinations of the same and how potentially dangerous the stuff was. Everyone took this very seriously and you either complied or looked to work elsewhere (like maybe the School of Public Policy or Literature). The signage was required by law. Too bad there aren't any laws that require you to read and understand them. I often marveled at some of the folks that would breeze through areas with signage that should have said in plain english, "YOU COULD DIE IF YOU GO THROUGH THIS AREA AND AREN'T CAREFUL".

I only had to suit up for the chip lab twice. That was enough for me. If they needed a system worked on, they had to pull it out of the lab. There was no way to realistically work on the systems when they were in the lab. Two much noise from the air handling equipment and it was extremely difficult to handle delicate equipment in the moon suit unless you did it on a daily basis (aka worked in the lab). These weren't even the "dangerous" labs. We had a nuclear reactor on site and that required NRC clearance on top of everything else. You learned the rules and followed them if not for your own sake then out of respect for those around you.

You would think that with 500,000 killed in about one year and multiple sequences of events showing that the mild safety protocols we are being ASKED to follow that it would be a no brainer. Nope. I don't see why I should have too. I don't want to. I am not going to. If nothing else we have demonstrated to our enemies that it's pretty easy to royally f*k ourselves over. You don't need fancy long range nuclear weapons systems. Just a contagious disease and we'll take care of the rest ouselves.

Re taking advice of any kind over the internet (or anywhere else). It's worth every penny you paid for it. As for guarantees similar rules. Life involves risks. You should try to always minimize the risks. To act otherwise is foolish no matter how dangerous your job/occupation. Last, doing nothing is not an excuse. If you do nothing and someone is injured or dies you are as morally as responsible as if you had done something. Maybe not "legally" but ethically.
Last edited by chuck on Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

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rogruth
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Re: vaccine

Postby rogruth » Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:30 pm

Niel, Thank you.
roger

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Neil
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Re: vaccine

Postby Neil » Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:52 am

Just FYI, all the vaccines almost certainly provide some protection, perhaps quite a bit, against serious illness and death within a few days of the first shot. That's because the antibody response begins days before any exposure to virus. Without the vaccine, the antibody response probably takes 3-7 days to get started, so the vaccine gives the recipient a few extra days of protection that can make the difference between just the sniffles and being in the ICU. This is a well known aspect of all vaccines, which is why we give vaccines even to people who are already exposed to viruses like rabies, hepatitis B and others. Standard practice. Doesn't mean you shouldn't wear a mask or stay way indoors from those you don't live with, but it's a feature of vaccines that should make them attractive to everyone.
Neil


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