Seen in Print

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webenda
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby webenda » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:04 am

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
--Albert Einstein

There is no record of Albert Einstein having said that. Ben Franklin and Mark Twain, are also credited with coining this idea, have no record of saying it either.

There are experiments where, if you do not get a different answer every time, you are doing something wrong.

Pass a carbon/zinc D cell around a room full of metrology technicians, engineers and managers and the voltage will go higher and higher as each person handles the cell. The first time I did this, one engineer called out, "0.546 volts." I dutifully recorded his answer on the white board. After everyone had measured the cell we talked about outliers before getting to the subject of the meeting, Statistical Analysis in Metrology.

Pass an alkaline D cell around a room full of metrology technicians, engineers and managers and the voltage will go lower and lower as each person handles the cell.

Do the measurement in a stable environment without touching anything and every time you make the measurement, you will get a different answer, sometimes higher than the last measurement and sometimes lower but never the same.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:29 am

Image
What if lollipops moaned every time we licked them?

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rogruth
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby rogruth » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:12 am

Wayne,
Is there any explanation of what you describe above with the battery measurements?
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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webenda
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby webenda » Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:38 pm

rogruth wrote:Wayne,
Is there any explanation of what you describe above with the battery measurements?

Yes.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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rogruth
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby rogruth » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:15 pm

webenda wrote:
rogruth wrote:Wayne,
Is there any explanation of what you describe above with the battery measurements?

Yes.

OK. You did to me what I have done to others many times.

What is the explanation of the differences with the batteries?
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:25 pm

webenda wrote:The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
--Albert Einstein

There is no record of Albert Einstein having said that. Ben Franklin and Mark Twain, are also credited with coining this idea, have no record of saying it either.


Interesting. I'd not heard that attributed to any of the 3. Sounds more like something from Will Roger though...
What if lollipops moaned every time we licked them?

E7
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby E7 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:31 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
webenda wrote:The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
--Albert Einstein

There is no record of Albert Einstein having said that. Ben Franklin and Mark Twain, are also credited with coining this idea, have no record of saying it either.


Interesting. I'd not heard that attributed to any of the 3. Sounds more like something from Will Roger though...


It was more likely Joe Theisman attributing it to Norman Einstein. :lol:

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rogruth
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby rogruth » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:41 pm

E7 wrote:
Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
webenda wrote:The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
--Albert Einstein

There is no record of Albert Einstein having said that. Ben Franklin and Mark Twain, are also credited with coining this idea, have no record of saying it either.


Interesting. I'd not heard that attributed to any of the 3. Sounds more like something from Will Roger though...


It was more likely Joe Theisman attributing it to Norman Einstein. :lol:

E,
Since you were a POGO fan you may remember that the owl and the turtle were arguing over who said "When it rains it pours". One thought Mr. Twain
and the other thought Mr. Clemens. Pogo asked the groundhog who said it and his reply was "You heard me. I said it".
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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Re: Seen in Print

Postby E7 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:53 pm

I didn't notice the second pupil, thought it was just the "Who peed in my coffee?" mug.

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webenda
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby webenda » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:59 pm

rogruth wrote:
webenda wrote:
rogruth wrote:Wayne,
Is there any explanation of what you describe above with the battery measurements?

Yes.

OK. You did to me what I have done to others many times.

What is the explanation of the differences with the batteries?

That was not intentional Roger, I just did not have time at the moment.

Are you familiar with the notation, Temperature Coefficient, when used with the voltage specification for batteries?
A temperature coefficient describes the relative change of a physical property that is associated with a given change in temperature.
--Wikipedia.

There are two temperature coefficients that affect the voltage at a battery's output terminals, the resistance temperature coefficient and the voltage temperature coefficient. Because we measured the open circuit battery voltage, the resistance temperature coefficient had no measurable affect on the voltage measured.

Let's measure the voltage temperature coefficient of a battery in my parts drawer.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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webenda
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby webenda » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:18 am

Image||Image

Temperature change = 70 - 40 = 30 F
Voltage change = 1617 mV - 1625 mV = -8 mV.
Temperature coefficient = -8 mV / 30 F or - 0.267 mV per °F.
Equation check. 1625 mV + (30 °F x -0.267 mV / °F) = 1625 mV - 8 mV = 1617 mV.

If you do this with a carbon-zinc battery you should get a positive temperature coefficient.


Edit 1: Corrected cold temperature from -22 °F to 40 °F.
Last edited by webenda on Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

E7
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby E7 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 am

rogruth wrote:Since you were a POGO fan you may remember that the owl and the turtle were arguing over who said "When it rains it pours". One thought Mr. Twain
and the other thought Mr. Clemens. Pogo asked the groundhog who said it and his reply was "You heard me. I said it".


There's a better than even chance that ALL 3 said it, though the groundhog was somewhat after the fact. I'm thinking the other 2 were in a dead heat. :wink:

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webenda
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby webenda » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:41 am

The temperature (voltage or resistance) of a battery is not linear over the entire operating range of the battery. If anyone wishes to find the knees in the voltage/temperature coefficient, make the measurements every degree Fahrenheit and let us know what you find. :D
----Wayne----

Back when I was growing up, if you didn't start someth'n, there wouldn't be noth'n.
--Merle Haggard

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rogruth
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby rogruth » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:42 am

Wayne,
No problem with the "Yes" answer. I use it too often.
roger

I support thread drift.
If God didn't want women to be looked at, He would have made 'em ugly. RAH

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Rufus T. Firefly
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Re: Seen in Print

Postby Rufus T. Firefly » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:11 am

Image
What if lollipops moaned every time we licked them?


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