Track Nails

[webenda]

Ever walk along railroad tracks and notice all the track nails that have worked their way out of the ties and are just laying alongside the track?



I asked a Southern Pacific train crew about the loose and missing spikes once and they said, "We are told, 'The weight of the train will hold the rails in place, don't worry about it.'"

[webenda]

wouldn't screws be better than nails? Don't screws hold better in wood?



Maybe not but at least there are four screws that have to work their way out before the fastening is totally useless.

[rex desilets]

Way back when, my children and I were walking along a branch line while I looked for date nails. I eventually realized that they were plucking loose spikes from the ties. They had amassed quite a collection. So I had them put the spikes back as best they could.
Another time, ca 1971 after the Penn Central debacle, while waiting for the Paoli Local at Whitford station, a GG-1 on the point of an express came charging through. Watching the rails flex up and down off the ties made all of us take several steps back

[E7]

My guess is, back in the day when things were done by man power, they could be hammered way faster than screwed. They could probably machine screw the things in today. A screw will definitely hold better than a nail, barring it is coated with glue or some such. Last I heard some residential construction is done by screw guns.

Looking at some of the branch line track in my area makes one wonder why there aren't derailments!

[MurphOnMillerAve]

The conversation, to this point, has made me wonder if screws would have been too firm in their grasp. Perhaps some "give" is needed, considering the enormous weight and the variety in the weight of the various engines, and that the ties need to allow some movement of the rails vertically?

Also, I thought E7's point about the difficulty of trying to screw them in vs simply hammering them in made interesting sense.

[Big Jim]

Note that the rail sits in the flanges of the tie plate and that the spikes keep the tie plate in place.

[MurphOnMillerAve]

Note that the rail sits in the flanges of the tie plate and that the spikes keep the tie plate in place.

Are those tie plates supposed to have some give in their hold, Big Jim ?

[E7]

Note that the rail sits in the flanges of the tie plate and that the spikes keep the tie plate in place.

Which gives rise to the question: Were tie plates used from the get go, or did they evolve along the way as a more efficient way to hold the rails to the ties?

[E7]

Also, surprised someone hasn't attacked the idea of calling them "NAILS"! It was the "Golden Spike", not the "Golden Nail"!

[webenda]

Note that the rail sits in the flanges of the tie plate and that the spikes keep the tie plate in place.

Which gives rise to the question: Were tie plates used from the get go, or did they evolve along the way as a more efficient way to hold the rails to the ties?

No, early "tee" rail was nailed directly to the tie.

No, tie plates were not invented for effeciency, but to increase the bearing area of the train weight on the wooden ties.

As trains got bigger and heavier it was found the rails were cutting into the ties. Also, as Murph pointed out, the rails move quite a bit as a train rolls over them. This also causes wear in the ties. The tie plate provides a buffer between the moving rail and the tie.

There were two comments concerning whether the rails should move or not. I watched a train traverse a particularly soft section of roadbed and came to the conclusion that the rail system would be a lot more efficient if the rails did not move at all. The reason is, the weight of the train cars pushes the rail/tie/roadbed system down creating a depression the engines have not only to power themselves out of but they have to pull every car out of its own depression.

To make matters worse, the depression caused by the individual engines and cars stays under the wheels causing the engines and every car to be forever climbing out of its self-made hole.

Ships used to have the same problem with their bow wave... forever having it in front of them when in motion.



Modern ships have solved the problem. You will not see a container ship at full speed with a bow wave.


Instead, you will see the bow falling into a depression.

Edit 1: Changed, "ever car" to "every car."
Edit 2: Gave some motion to ships with bow wave (they do not have a bow wave if standing still. )
Edit 3: Created "Edit 2" note, which I forgot to do before pressing "Submit."

[webenda]

Also, surprised someone hasn't attacked the idea of calling them "NAILS"! It was the "Golden Spike", not the "Golden Nail"!

With a little semantic effort anything can be proven right or wrong.

PROOF WE ARE BOTH WRONG

A spike is an ear of corn or grain.

A nail is the thin, horny plate at the ends of fingers and toes on humans and some other animals.

Source: https://wikidiff.com/spike/nail

The device used to hold railroad rail in place on a wooden tie is a "crampon" or "hooked dog."

So, we are both wrong.


PROOF I AM RIGHT

A nail is a spike-shaped metal fastener used for joining wood or similar materials.

The nail is generally driven through two or more layers of material by means of impacts from a hammer or other device.

It is then held in place by friction.

Nails include pins, tacks, brads, spikes, and cleats. (So, a spike is a nail.)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_(fastener)


PROOF E7 IS RIGHT

Go ahead E7... oh, and the, "Golden Spike" is not proof because it is just the name appled to one gold plated railroad nail.

[Mitch]

They hold ribbon rail down with pandroll clips. I have a Pentrex tape called "Workin' on the Railroad. They really have some ingenius equipment. Spike pullers, tie pullers, tie placers, spike installers, ballast cleaners and installers, etc. It's really pretty cool. Unfortunately, I no longer have a working VCR, so I've got a lot of useless tapes. Shoulda bought the same thing on DVD.

[webenda]

That is a Pandrol clip in my second photo (the one with a screw unscrewing.) They can be installed with a sledgehammer.
John Zuspan* says, "I remember when we first started using these and had to trade in our spiking maul for a sledgehammer. Until we got the hang of it, we experienced a lot of bruises on our ankles and shinbones."
*Reference: http://trn.trains.com/railroads/ask-tra ... -fasteners

[E7]

Go ahead E7... oh, and the, "Golden Spike" is not proof because it is just the name appled to one gold plated railroad nail.

Aha! So you admit there IS a pecedent.

And how about all those modeler folks who lay their own track? Never heard a one confess that they were actually nailing track!

Now that I have established a solid defense (laughing at ME not you), I will digress:

As for track "giving" (as in flexing), I am guessing some degree of flex is a necessity. There's not much out there that stands dead solid fast, totally immobile (except maybe You and I in a discussion). LOL

As we talk about this, I wonder about the track work for the "Bullet Train" and the "Train a Grande Vitesse"!!!!!

Cheers,
Rich

[webenda]

And how about all those modeler folks who lay their own track? Never heard a one confess that they were actually nailing track!

Reference for nailing track=> http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/37898/485081.aspx

Now you have.