Battery Powered Radio Control

[stephen neill]

I'm interested. Can we have a discussion? Thanks Steve

[ScaleCraft]

Sure.

I can tell you what I do and why, as long as everyone understands up front that I am NOT telling anybody what to do....just why I do it this way.
BTDT with the accusations.

I started out with the Australian-made RCS stuff, oh, Lord, 24 or 25 years ago?
Basic goal was fully on-board, no mandatory trailing cars for batteries.

We use(d) 27MC, which altho low power, was and is bullet-proof.
Small size of all components..al that.

Started out with NiCads and trickle chargers...still have some NiCads in use.

Went to NiMH and fully bypassed all iterations of Lithium for many reasons. Know of several model railroad engines using Lithium batteries that A) fully engulfed the house, B) fully destroyed a garage and trains, and C) fully engulfed a shed and trains.

I use up to 4500MAH in 14.4V configuration for most applications. I have done 0, and my old compatriot in New Hampshire still does.

Figured out proper noise suppression for motors to maximize range. Have a dual purpose charge jack in the back of either tender or diseasemal, that is a charging port when switch is off, and auxiliary battery port when switch is on.

My sound system of choice is Soundtraxx Sierra, when I can find them. Still a Soundtraxx dealer, but haven't used them in a lot of years.

Phoenix is okay, don't care for computer programming and the square wave whistle. You can play the ramp with RCS.

One of my mantras is pushbutton only transmitters, as we do run in the rain, so transmitters go into zip lock baggies.

Where do you want to go with this?

TOC

[E7]

Dumb it down some. Forget about sound, that's another issue. Some of the battery types are alphabet soup. I've heard of NiCads, and the dreaded Lithium Ion.....what doesn't footprint or blow up??? Ever have an issue with an engine running on after you hit "STOP"?

Thanks!

[ScaleCraft]

Dumb it down some. Forget about sound, that's another issue. Some of the battery types are alphabet soup. I've heard of NiCads, and the dreaded Lithium Ion.....what doesn't footprint or blow up??? Ever have an issue with an engine running on after you hit "STOP"?

When I started 10% wanted sound, 90% did not. Now it's 10% do not, 90% do. Usually when I run, I run the volume to zero.

NiCads take a lot to blow them up...same with NiMH.

Our 27MC stuff used the rail as the antenna.....one side...could and did run it on powered track...if you're too far away, hold the TX close to the rail.

Any system can fail to respond when the range is excessive.

[E7]

NiMH stands for Nickle M? H?

Any system can fail to respond when the range is excessive. Ball Park figure on "excessive"????

Just thinking if they can fly those RC airplanes all over that wouldn't be a factor except on a large outside layout???

[E7]

..if you're too far away, hold the TX close to the rail.

Makes sense as air would have MORE resistance

[E7]

Maybe Neil or someone else will have some more intelligent questions!

PS: As I ponder this discussion, I think my only real issues/questions are what type battery packs won't footprint or explode??

[ScaleCraft]

The old RCS line was sold a bit over 7 years ago to someone in Iowa who proved to be.......won't put that in print.

Year and a half ago he and his girlfriend decided they would rather raise and sell Koi.

So I'm retired.

Size of the throttles is important for fittment, which eliminates AirWire (CVP) from most of my endeavours. Plus the transmitter has a knob. And is fragile, And has a readout.

Revulsion (Revolution) is silly with all the carp (sp) you need to program.

Dead Rail looks good, but for each engine seems pricey, and it's got...a knob.

Ni based batteries can vent, and unless you really jam them (c10) no blowing up. Proper recycling, no footprint. Pitch them in the trash, yes.

Lithiums...can you say Boeing 787?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3ZOvhRNwU

I have been sharing this many times over the years. Gives you some idea.

Lithiums in a product that has been designed around each other, with charger engineered at same time, are safest, but as you can see from the video, not foolproof.
Take a locomotive not designed to have batteries, purchase batteries and install them, then find a charger from somewhere else...and now you really have problems.

[stephen neill]

So questions: What battery type is currently best, and what is the maximum amps I can reasonably get?

What is the downside of using Airwire (?) with a smart phone as the controller. The upside is I wouldn't need to learn how to program cv's,I (and everyone else) has a smart phone, the software is downloadable free, and there is a group that is continuing to develop it.

Can I use track power and just use BPRC for control, and if so what are the downsides, and what systems will let me do this?

I am building a layout and don't want to wire it extensively. I have perhaps 40 older locomotives with open frame motors, and I don't want to modify them any more than necessary. I would like to run several at the same time (not mu).

Steve

[ScaleCraft]

If you want to use a phone, go for it. My "Kirk To Enterprise" won't. I keep ONE transmitter for EACH engine so anyone can run any engine...plus resale is easier if they are complete!

NiMH is Nickle Metal Hydride. No idea how big....but as Hospital Backups I would imagine several thousand amp-hours.
Most I use in LS is 4.5 AM, or 4500MAH.
Smart Chargers only, as they need to shut themselves off. Usually only need one.
Probably need to remove track charging from your ideology. Doesn't work well unless you are fully track power and maintained, clean track and wheels.

I could tell you stories.

Range....in the 27MC stuff, 75 feet. When they went to 900MC is went to 150-300, depending. AirWire's approach is to continually transmit, so once one TX and engine are on, nothing else can use that frequency, which initially created big problems at shows as it was 8 distinct freqs. Two guys in LS, four on a H0 layout, two on a Nano scale layout, and no 0 scalers could run in the hall.

The 27MC initially had 4 buttons and a side shift key for sound, later 8 buttons...push a button, transmitter fired up, sent the signal, let go and it shut off. Easy.

TOC

[ScaleCraft]

This is an earlier TX, four buttons and shift kep, no ribbed case probably lower power (50mw).


This was the now dead 900MC unit. Interestingly, Linx radio is the same used on AirWire and one other...can't recall who.


This was the Aus 3-amp throttle, also used initially in the 900MC range with a special receiver. I had/have one in my K-27, swap the plugs on receivers and you can go one to the other...and I gave up, swapped back to the 27MC RCS unit.
RCS also made 6 amp boards, the 900MC folks were 5 and 10 amps.

[ScaleCraft]

NiMH have roughly double the charge density for volume of NiCads.

[stephen neill]

You say: "Most I use in LS is 4.5 AM, or 4500MAH." What is LS? Could I wire 2 of the 4.5 amp batteries together to get 9 amps?

To be clearer, I wouldn't expect to recharge the battery from the track, I am asking about using track power to run the engine.

Is Airwire still limited to 8 channels? That might be ok on a home layout.

At least one of the BPRC suppliers, TAM?, advertised that you could use either battery or track power. The BlueRail Trains article in the current O Scale Trains issue mentions using track power.

I am pretty sure that there are several on this forum that use BPRC. Can we hear from you?

Thanks Steve

[ScaleCraft]

That's 4.5 AH or Amp/Hour (one amp for one hour).
Why would you want radio/battery and run the engine from the track?

I have, in my possession, the Sanyo Battery Engineering Manual. Batteries in parallel...basically, no. There are circuits to allow that. But, what is your current draw (ammeter between power pack and track will tell you) and how long do you want to run?
I had guys used to come here for OPS sessions who used the "latest and greatest" Lithium Technology, claimed hours and hours of run time...ran one short 20-minute wayfreight, drank two beers, and went home.
Parallel can be a real bugaboo with batteries trying to dump into each other. Thermal Runaway can be an issue.

We used to market a BBU...Battery Back-Up, small on-board batteries and radio....poor contact in a switch, crossover, or reverse loop, and it would shift to battery, trickle charge to battery whilst running.

I removed every one once folks realized they could pull the plug and quit cleaning track.
Newest AirWire is 16 channels.

TAM does Dead Rail, too. None of them wants to develop a pushbutton TX. Sad.

Tell me again what you want...track power, battery backup, retaining track power (and you will need it wide open which precludes running something else on regular track power).

[E7]

Why would you want radio/battery and run the engine from the track?

Sort of obviates the purpose of having battery power, doesn't it!!!