Lobaugh Freight Cars

[rogruth]

Dave,

Might that be a downspout?

[R.K. Maroon]

Here is the last of the models from page 1. This is Sarge's 50' double-door automobile car:



It looks like this car has wood sides and roof, which would make it earlier than around 1940, when they switched to steel sides for most or all of their house cars. I could not find a perfect match to this car in the 1938 catalog. When I get a chance I will search the other catalogs from that era (they are somewhere in the files at home). I have the 1938, 40, and 41 catalogs scanned into my computer though so I can search them on my lunch break. At any rate here is the closest match:



And here is a list of the other cars available in the same basic style:



Note as was common then the option for decalcomania or hand-lettering. In the 1940 catalog they offer lithographed steel replacement sides. I cringe at the idea of somebody replacing their hand-lettered sides wood sides with lithographed steel. No guarantee it ever happened and of course I would prefer to think it never did, but what was valued then is not necessarily the same as what is valued now -- or at least not is the same proportion.

Jim

[bob turner]

Tanks. It is a true work of art. I was unaware that it was Lobaugh.

[R.K. Maroon]

I would not be surprised if I have already mentioned this, but one of the reasons I am willing to post the accompanying catalog shots of these models is that I wind up learning something. Case in point, here is Bob's T&NO stock car:



I lust for this not just because it is cast but also because it is T&NO, which I have an interest in due to the years spent here in Texas as a youth. I suppose I should lust also because it is Lobaugh but the current collector-driven prices of Lobaugh equipment spoil it for me. Thank goodness ScaleCraft, Alexanders, Walthers, Scale Models, and others pre-war freight cars (many cast!) have not suffered from the collector scene as much (or at all).

BUT... back to today's lesson for me. Here is the catalog listing for this style of cast stock car in the 1938 Lobaugh catalog:



There is no T&NO listed but there are two SP cars. Hmm....a 40' car and a 36' -- I did not know that they made different lengths of the same car! Sure enough, by comparing the catalog shot with Bob's car one can conclude (from the angle of the cross bracing if nothing else) that the catalog car is 40' and Bob's car is 36'. Note the ladders are different as well.

[robert.]

It looks like the nyc car has a build date of 9/41. unless rufus made the decals years into the future you wont see it in a 38 catalog.

[sarge]

It looks like the nyc car has a build date of 9/41. unless rufus made the decals years into the future you wont see it in a 38 catalog.

This is one of the things one has to watch whilst finding out about the history of scale gear. This kit, and many like it, can be misleading if one doesn't remember that they sit around until someone builds them, often decades later. In this case, George Eschbach built it in the 1980s, painted it with Floquil, lettered with Champ decals, all of which has no bearing on determining when the kit itself was actually made and/or cataloged.

An O scale 2-rail kit itself could easily be first cataloged say in 1938, actually made in 1950, put in several cupboards of several people over the years and finally bought at a show by the guy who built it in the 70s and built for the layout in the 80s using anyone's decals, glues and paints he had on hand.

So, the challenge here is this. Between kits never built to this day (I still have a Westbrook NdeM boxcar fresh in the box in my cupboard right now, for example) and those built and so often relettered to suit rather than by the instructions, I'd bet far more of these kits that now are becoming of historical interest don't reflect the catalogue appearance than do.

[bob turner]

I agree. There are literally tons of unbuilt Lobaugh kits out there. And Champ decals still seem to qork ok despite their advancing age - not so the original Lobaugh decals.

Our buddy Allan cast these sides from aluminum in his back yard. Compare them with Maroon's shot of the catalog PRR chicken car:

[robert.]

"those built and so often relettered to suit rather than by the instructions" Through the world art is fill with historical inaccuracies. Can 2 rail guys handle this? Anyway here is a 40's car..
something i forgot to add. pre 39 NYC cars look to be only 40 feet
ps. i often handsaws with the wrong screws or handles applied to them. Most times the backyard saw filer is not a aware of the right hardware. He has a bunch of stuff on his bench and uses what fits.

[R.K. Maroon]

Again, I learn something. Here is Bob's PFE reefer:



There are PFE reefers in all the Lobaugh catalogs that I have back to 1938, but there were none pre-war that matched this reefer. As I understand it, the SP and UP heralds on both sides was a mark of later cars, but the R-30-13 is an older car. The answer was in the 1953 catalog:



Bob -- The photo and catalog have hints that the prototype of this car is still a wood-sided reefer, even after rebuild. Is the model wood-sided or metal? It says lithographed, which I believe means metal? Are the wood seams pressed or etched in?

And while I don't want to stir up the prototype police, my (admittedly thin) records on PFE cars show that the 90000 numbers series cars were rebuilt in 1935-36. That might have been too early for the herald on both sides, and more to the point, I was not, with a limited Google image search, able to find a photo of an R-30 of any type with a double herald. Not that it would stop me from trotting it around the layout.

Jim

[bob turner]

This bees fun, making Jim scan catalogue pages!

[sarge]

Again, I learn something. Here is Bob's PFE reefer:

There are PFE reefers in all the Lobaugh catalogs that I have back to 1938, but there were none pre-war that matched this reefer. As I understand it, the SP and UP heralds on both sides was a mark of later cars, but the R-30-13 is an older car. The answer was in the 1953 catalog:

Bob -- The photo and catalog have hints that the prototype of this car is still a wood-sided reefer, even after rebuild. Is the model wood-sided or metal? It says lithographed, which I believe means metal? Are the wood seams pressed or etched in?

And while I don't want to stir up the prototype police, my (admittedly thin) records on PFE cars show that the 90000 numbers series cars were rebuilt in 1935-36. That might have been too early for the herald on both sides, and more to the point, I was not, with a limited Google image search, able to find a photo of an R-30 of any type with a double herald. Not that it would stop me from trotting it around the layout.

Jim

A couple things to bring a little clarity perhaps:

Regarding paint and these quotes ("As I understand it, the SP and UP heralds on both sides was a mark of later cars, but the R-30-13 is an older car." and "...were rebuilt in 1935-36. That might have been too early for the herald on both sides..."), This is a similar modeller's trap to Robert-dot's we were just discussing. The age of the car doesn't dictate the scheme it's painted in.

If my memory of PFE schemes is correct, a herald on each side would have been put on these cars when rebuilt, the UP one with an Overland Route ribbon which was deleted early on in WWII. In 1946-47 (IIRC) this changed to the pair on each side with UP in colour. In the very early '50s the UP herald went to all black. Then, there came many rapid changes, side hardware from black to orange, then the door hardware changed likewise, stripes over reporting marks disappeared next, &c.

What this is mistaken to mean is any car built (or rebuilt) in that timeframe would wear that scheme forever. What would be true is any car during that timeframe, no matter the age of the car, could commonly see that scheme applied. What Lobaugh have done is a car rebuilt (and by accounting practice that rebuild apparently justified a new build date of 1936 rather than carrying the original build date through, so a new frame involved perhaps?) before the war but painted in a 1950s scheme (UP Herald in black rather than colour) as would be contemporary to the catalogue date of '53.

So, an older car (rebuild or otherwise) recently repainted; any repaint would be in the current scheme. PFE was known to be a pretty aggressive repainter of their fleet, wood cars every five years or so (excluding repairs that required a paint) and steel every 10. Those repaints would be all to the then current spec. though, not the original spec of the car.

Here, what does become anomalous are the shop dates; the LA 5-36 and the Built 3-36 don't reflect either a shopping date or the periodic re-weighing requirement that matches the 1950ish paint scheme. The easy solution to prototype neurosis then is to leave the build date as it is but change the shop date to reflect the era of the paint.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I do like that Kraft cheese & mayo reefer.....

[bob turner]

Thanks. It appears hand-painted. I have always assumed the orange reefers were painted before WWII. Maybe I am wrong. A caboose, also Lobaugh:

[rogruth]

Nice. As usual I am impressed with [almost] anything that a modeler puts together and it works.
[Because I can't.]
I did some scratch building and a lot of kit building when I was in high school. This was back during the dark ages of my life.
Most of it was HO but some was 3R O. I NEVER made anything as nice as stuff I see here. The kit built stuff was acceptable.
The main reason that I read the 2R forums and OST is that I really do appreciate the work that I see done on rolling stock and locos.
A lot of modelers can do great scenery and I do not mean for this to be a put down but not as many can do lifelike locos and cars.

[bob turner]

Later Lobaugh included two all brass cabooses - SP and ATSF. Properly done (this one is about average) they rival Max Gray.