Model Train Journal

I have read several, OK, many, times about problems with MTH locos. These problems usually concern using the DCS control system.
Much has been written here about this system.
I operate, run would be a better word, my trains conventionally with a transformer and no form of command control.
My question is how well, or poor, do MTH locos run when operated conventionally?
I have three Lionel TMCC locos that I run conventionally and am happy with that.
I guess this question is sort of philosophical because I do not plan on buying any more locos.
I just want to know.

Ah, but you did; once. Remember the Flying Yankee in Dixie? As I recall, it ran quite well between Arock and Hardplace. I thought that I had a photo of it; if I do, it is MIA.

The best MTH loso's are pre protosound. I have a bunch of them, no problems.

J. S. Bach wrote:Ah, but you did; once. Remember the Flying Yankee in Dixie? As I recall, it ran quite well between Arock and Hardplace. I thought that I had a photo of it; if I do, it is MIA.

YES. I remember that it ran rather nice all over my layout. Thanks for reminding.

v8vega wrote:The best MTH loso's are pre protosound. I have a bunch of them, no problems.

I don't think I am familiar with those at all. There is one train show a year in our area and the dealers and sellers do not bring MTH locos very often.
Any examples?

I only have one MTH loco: a Xmas old-time 4-6-0. It has Loco-Sound, but no command control features. I've only test run it a little, but it works pretty well.

v8vega wrote:The best MTH loso's are pre protosound. I have a bunch of them, no problems.

PS-1?

George

G3750 wrote:

v8vega wrote:The best MTH loso's are pre protosound. I have a bunch of them, no problems.

PS-1?

George

Was there a pre PS-! loco?

rogruth wrote:

G3750 wrote:

v8vega wrote:The best MTH loso's are pre protosound. I have a bunch of them, no problems.

PS-1?

George

Was there a pre PS-! loco?

I have no idea. Sorry.

I'll bet Chuck knows.

George

There were MTH locos before PS1, which was developed specifically to MTH specs. I think the reference is to PSa1 locos, which vastly outnumber the earlier versions without PS1 as I recall. PS1 worked reasonably well in conventional mode. But like all QSI products they had this awful now antiquated system of activating locomotive features by using 4 or 6 of button push sequences. And an internal battery, without which bad things, or nothing (operationally) at all happened. Some of the PS1 chips were prone to scrambling, which could be fixed by yet another kludge from MTH (some special programmed chip).

So the answer is that when they worked, they worked reasonably well. But they had many drawbacks operationally. They looked beautiful but had this godawful operating system (PS1). PS1 was also delightfully incompatible with some solid-state throttles of the time (Lionel RW and MW, MRC, etc.) to boot.

When Lionel developed TMCC and Railsounds, PS-1 was left the dusk. Inferior operation, inferior reliability and second rate sounds. What more could one ask for? .

I am getting answers.

Neil wrote:There were MTH locos before PS1, which was developed specifically to MTH specs. I think the reference is to PSa1 locos, which vastly outnumber the earlier versions without PS1 as I recall. PS1 worked reasonably well in conventional mode. But like all QSI products they had this awful now antiquated system of activating locomotive features by using 4 or 6 of button push sequences. And an internal battery, without which bad things, or nothing (operationally) at all happened. Some of the PS1 chips were prone to scrambling, which could be fixed by yet another kludge from MTH (some special programmed chip).

So the answer is that when they worked, they worked reasonably well. But they had many drawbacks operationally. They looked beautiful but had this godawful operating system (PS1). PS1 was also delightfully incompatible with some solid-state throttles of the time (Lionel RW and MW, MRC, etc.) to boot.

When Lionel developed TMCC and Railsounds, PS-1 was left the dusk. Inferior operation, inferior reliability and second rate sounds. What more could one ask for? .

I believe it's been pointed out on this board that MTH specified the sound system they wanted QSI to produce and that what MTH got was not the standard QSI product. I even think there was a lawsuit over that. No surprise there.

G3750 wrote:

Neil wrote:There were MTH locos before PS1, which was developed specifically to MTH specs. I think the reference is to PSa1 locos, which vastly outnumber the earlier versions without PS1 as I recall. PS1 worked reasonably well in conventional mode. But like all QSI products they had this awful now antiquated system of activating locomotive features by using 4 or 6 of button push sequences. And an internal battery, without which bad things, or nothing (operationally) at all happened. Some of the PS1 chips were prone to scrambling, which could be fixed by yet another kludge from MTH (some special programmed chip).

So the answer is that when they worked, they worked reasonably well. But they had many drawbacks operationally. They looked beautiful but had this godawful operating system (PS1). PS1 was also delightfully incompatible with some solid-state throttles of the time (Lionel RW and MW, MRC, etc.) to boot.

When Lionel developed TMCC and Railsounds, PS-1 was left the dusk. Inferior operation, inferior reliability and second rate sounds. What more could one ask for? .

I believe it's been pointed out on this board that MTH specified the sound system they wanted QSI to produce and that what MTH got was not the standard QSI product. I even think there was a lawsuit over that. No surprise there.

So did QSI develop one for MTH that MTH didn't like or one that didn't work as wanted or was not as good as the QSI standard product?
I am not familiar with QSI or MTH operating system or sound.

rogruth wrote:I have read several, OK, many, times about problems with MTH locos. These problems usually concern using the DCS control system.
Much has been written here about this system.
I operate, run would be a better word, my trains conventionally with a transformer and no form of command control.
My question is how well, or poor, do MTH locos run when operated conventionally?
I have three Lionel TMCC locos that I run conventionally and am happy with that.
I guess this question is sort of philosophical because I do not plan on buying any more locos.
I just want to know.

To actually answer the question ...

I own two MTH O scale locos: a 20-5592-1 CNJ ALCo-GE-IR box cab (PS-2) and a 20-20466-1 G.E. LIRR 44 ton (PS-3) diesel-electric models. They both run really well with excellent slow speed control in conventional mode. The electro-couplers are readily operated in conventional. Decent sounds, build quality (die cast), and fit and finish. Although I am not a big fan of DCS for a number of reasons, I've also ran both locos on a friend's DSC layout with excellent results and without complaint. I prefer Lionel/Legacy overall, but we should be honest about questions such as this. "Politics" has nothing to do with how they actually function.

Cheers,

Bob

Roger
Every MTh loco operates in convenional mose whether its QSI, PS1, Locosound, PS2 5 volt, PS2 3 volt or PS-3. PS-3 actually works the best in conventional.