Mike Wolf is retiring

[ScaleCraft]

It seems to be a game, like he's done before.

Announce retiring, closing, maybe someone will pick it up, then we find out he sold the company headquarters building last month, and today, 24 hours later, we have a new company, all set up.....that seriously did not happen overnight.
They knew.

Lay this stuff out in Mikey's timeline, his rules, and I don't care.

Never bought any of his stuff before, not gonna do it now.

Tomorrow he'll tell everyone that due to Covid Quarantine this is a delayed April Fools Joke.

[Norton]

I, for one, am pleased with the possible outcome regarding DCS. This is much better than what happened with ElectricRR. First because some engineers will be in charge and second there may not be any added on licensing fees. Scott is a good guy but no engineer and he can't add on features since Lionel still owns the rights. The fees just add to price making it now more expensive to upgrade to TMCC than PS3 by a fair amount.

Pete

[Neil]

Pete, with all due respect, it hasn't happened yet and we don't know for sure whether this is a financially viable business model, or what the pricing will be like to make this new arrangement feasible. The way it is being announced thus far does little to inspire confidence in the outcome. Mike is getting out of Dodge. That's what we know so far. Time will tell about how it all plays out.

[Norton]

Agreed we don't know anything for sure but it represents a plan B if no one buys the whole deal which is the likely outcome. This may sound like a sudden anouncement but its been in the works for well over a year. I believe Mike was hoping to hand it over to staff but things may have gotten too competitive among the principals. More like a scene from the Godfather than the Waltons.

Pete

[ScaleCraft]

Agreed we don't know anything for sure but it represents a plan B if no one buys the whole deal which is the likely outcome. This may sound like a sudden anouncement but its been in the works for well over a year. I believe Mike was hoping to hand it over to staff but things may have gotten too competitive among the principals. More like a scene from the Godfather than the Waltons.

Pete

and plan C will be announced tomorrow.....

[Neil]

Always an optimist myself, but how this has been announced so far seems peculiar. Particularly for something that has been at least thought about over a period of years, if what I heard was correct. If what Pete says is true, this may be Mike's way of getting the new leadership to figure out a way to play nice together. If it is later announced that the company isn't being dissolved after all, we'll know that's the case if it's employee owned. They can always settle it by rock, paper, scissors . Better than going to the mattresses.

Bottom line. There's no way I'd install PS3 in a locomotive that didn't already have it as original equipment. DCC, maybe. ERR definitely. If Lionel makes LionChief available, definitely.

[chuck]

The fees just add to price making it now more expensive to upgrade to TMCC than PS3 by a fair amount.

I just looked at the fees on Sunset's web site. They don't seem to be that different than what ERR was charging near the end of their time frame. Re "upgrades", there won't be any as the original system was actually pretty limited and there isn't much more you can do with it. This is part of the reason that they developed Legacy/Vision line. Heck, a lot of the issues with TMCC were really issues with the CAB-1, not TMCC itself. They developed and released the CAB-1 for use with PowerMasters, aka pre true TMCC LCRU development. I can't speak fro why they never updated the CAB-1 but I do know that there were hidden features in TMCC that only became available when you used a computer interface or a Legacy base and CAB-2.

I have no idea what will become of DCS and I'm not going to miss it. I only had one PS-2 equipped set and it failed after a couple of minutes operation because of poor wiring (harness shorted out on some self tapping screws used to hold the whole mess together. I sent the failed set back and ordered the same set in LocoSounds which I turned the volume down and left it that way. All of my other MTH powered units were either DCRU equipped or Loco Sound (no Premier).

Back in the early days I would try to diagnose issues with PS-2 loco's for a LHS. It was painful. I had to upgrade the shops computer hardware to run the PS-2 upload software to change sound sets and run diagnostics.

Products I liked/admired from MTH were the Z-4000 (although I was a bit dismayed at it's enormous footprint) and the subway sets. A lot of the early diecast engines were beautiful. Diesels and electrics had sh*ty shallow cast side frames. I hope someone does buy the tooling for those subway cars and makes them available.

[Norton]

When Jon Z first started offering his Cruise Commander I believe list price was 100 bucks. A Railsounds board was 60 bucks. Some dealers (boxcar bill) would sell you both for 120 bucks. Then add a coupler for steam, two for diesel at 10 bucks each. Tethers and lights add more but now your total is maybe 160 bucks. Today a Cruise Commander alone is 130 bucks. Add all the rest and your total is close to $250. A PS3 kit includes all of the above at 200 bucks list, 180 for club members.
I am not pushing DCS. I use ERR for all Lionel and K-Line upgrades. PS2/3 makes installations in brass engines easier as you don't have to deal with antenna issue. PS2/3 was originally designed to upgrade PS1 engines and that is by far the best way to go on those as everything pretty much falls into place and PS1 engines are very well made.
In any event I have enough stock of all command upgrade components to last a few years and I can always use Legacy boards if the others disappear. Much more tedious though as all the harnesses have to assembled by hand and its unlikely Lionel will offer Legacy upgrade kits. BTDT


Pete

[jlong]

I can't speculate. I can only say if the sales numbers prove MTH trains and the DCS operating system truely are great and sell well. someone will take over. You can tell me all day how great MTH is and it meaningless. I want to see hard sales numbers on the table. The market speaks with its wallet, not its mouth.

[chuck]

Went to archive.org.

2006, AC/DC commander ~$50

no cruise offered

2012, AC/DC commander ~$70
Cruise Commander ~$120
Cruise M. ~ $85

2018, AC/DC Commander ~$70
Cruise Commander ~$120
Cruise M. ~$85

3rd Rail AC/DC Commander ~$100
Cruise Commander ~$130
Cruise M. ~$100

There is a huge price difference between the early 2006 versions of AC/CD Commander and what 3rd Rail is offering. Price increase on the cruise products less so. Apparently the Cruise commander was introduced in 2007 at around ~$120 BUT the M board was ~$90. I THINK the M (modular) board is just a resale of the board from Lionel and the price may be a reflection of what Lionel was charging at those points in time?

[Neil]

MTH's approach to announcing these changes becomes more bizarre by the hour. I'm retiring, and the company is going away. Oh, wait, perhaps the employees will run it. In this one letter, two mutually exclusive possibilities.

Then a second announcement that we're going to have a couple of guys doing parts and repairs. Why not include that in the initial message?

And oh, by the way, a third announcement is that a separate company will provide DCS and develop the system. Seriously?

This is either extreme incompetence, some attempt to manipulate people (both consumers and insiders) or some of the most scatterbrained communicating I've ever seen. And people are buying it, lock stock and barrel, perhaps because they want to buy it.

Rather sad. Here's a company that was driven by one man whose decisions determined everything they did. There's pretty much no way MTH can come out the other side fully functional with this approach, and without the ego maniac who created and shaped it over 40 years.

Happy to be proven wrong in the long run, because MTH disappearing does not help the hobby, hobbyists or the industry, but this plan looks like an accident waiting to happen. Maybe several accidents.

[G3750]

I can't speculate. I can only say if the sales numbers prove MTH trains and the DCS operating system truely are great and sell well. someone will take over. You can tell me all day how great MTH is and it meaningless. I want to see hard sales numbers on the table. The market speaks with its wallet, not its mouth.

Agreed! I want to see the numbers, and from an unimpeachable source.

BTW, the emoting at both other forums is approaching nausea levels.

George

[Tranz4mr]

My guess is Bachman buys them. They are the big boys with the cash and monopoly on Chinese factories. I own and enjoy many purple boxed MTH train cars and a few nice PS1 diesels I have converted to TMCC. I currently belong to a large HO/HOn3 layout club where MTH lawsuits and corrupted DCC control systems have earned MTH a less than stellar reputation. Still the loss of competition will not be good for the hobby

[Chris Webster]

The sales history for 7020 COLUMBIA GATEWAY DR from the Maryland Department of Assessments and Taxation's Real Property Data Search website:

10/06/1997: $928,485
08/05/1998: $0 (Non-Arms Length)
04/17/2020: $14,500,000

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I can't speculate. I can only say if the sales numbers prove MTH trains and the DCS operating system truely are great and sell well. someone will take over. You can tell me all day how great MTH is and it meaningless. I want to see hard sales numbers on the table. The market speaks with its wallet, not its mouth.

Agreed! I want to see the numbers, and from an unimpeachable source.

I'd be more interested to see what real assets exist.