Banned

[bob turner]

I have had the most unusual discussion with OGR. In a nutshell, unless I "agree to the TOS" I will be banned apparently forever.

I tried to tell them I was in total agreement with the TOS, but they accused me of posting my own copyrighted photos. Without my permission! Then they told me I had no copyright on my photos unless I registered them. Confusing, at least.

It was just a string of three e-mails - I pretty much agree with everything they are trying to say, and they are straining to disagree with me. The upshot is that, not only have I lost posting privileges, but also in three days I will lose the ability to even look.

Not sure it is a great loss - but you won't see me there any more. I think Martin's assessment might be closer to the truth than he realizes. There appears to be an intellectual deficiency somewhere, coupled with aggressive tendencies.

In case anyone wonders - when a modeler snaps a photo, it instantly becomes his intellectual property. The only reason one has to register it at the U S Copyright Office is if one wants to sue for monetary damages - hardly something I have any interest in.

[ScaleCraft]

I gave up on them long ago. I was an early participant, came back and you needed real names and they wanted contact info...like address and phone number.
I told them if they had ever gone through an identity theft issue like I had they'd run. Told them to delete the account. Never looked to see if they had or not.

If you really want to look and they block your IP, let me know. I know how to let you look all you want, and if I recall they'll think Sweden.

I learned that when a manufacturer's website blocked anybody who disagreed with them.

[E7]

Who came down with this decision.....Joseph Heller?

You should have just slapped a BIG copyright Bob Turner label under your images!

[bob turner]

You don't need to do that any more. And you do not have to "register" to own the copyright.

And thanks Dave. I am going to do just fine without checking "switcher saturday" or the local prayer groups.

[De Bruin]

Switcher Saturday?
Listen everyone knows God is a model railroader so you better get right with him Bob.

[ScaleCraft]

Switcher Saturday?
Listen everyone knows God is a model railroader so you better get right with him Bob.

I thought God was into automobiles?

"And God drove Adam and Eve from the Garden in his Fury"

The Fiery Darts of the Devil?

And the Apostles were all together in one Accord?

Then there's the Israelites...and the Fords of Jordan.

But it all started in Baseball. In The Big Inning.

Whatreya new?

[Chris Rock]

That is too bad. Nobody has to put copyright on anything they create and they don't have to file with the copyright office for It to be copyrighted. If you took the photo it is automatically copyrighted once you create it.

[Seaboard Air Line Fan]

I post photos there as often as I see fit, never had a problem...yet. At least never been sent an email saying knock it off or else.

Some of my posts have disappeared, usually because I insert a link to a place that is not a sponsor. Their loss not mine if they don't want anyone but sponsors to benefit from any sales that may come because of a post, or just trying to help a fellow modeler find an answer.

There's a couple of OGR forum "owners" there that I have a hard time with, you know, the guys who ALWAYS chime in no matter what the subject, think they run the place.

I try not to get in any debates about anything anymore, just not worth it at my age (71 this coming August!!!), I'll voice my opinion if I feel the need.

I've been running battery-operated, remote-control engines for 7+ years now. It still amuses me when people say it can't be done or tell me I'm wasting MY money.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

.

[bob turner]

And in my case, they did so in such an aggressive and bitter fashion I can only assume that there may be a "problem" somewhere.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

.

[DaveJfr0]

And in my case, they did so in such an aggressive and bitter fashion I can only assume that there may be a "problem" somewhere.

Some copyright lawyer troll teamed up with some railroad photo owner somewhere and brought lawsuit against them because some forum member used a photo without permission and OGR ended up caving and paying out a large sum of money to make it go away, so that's why they're so anal about photos and copyright. I was told much more detail about specifics and who was involved, but I can't remember the details at this point. I do remember they approached the member who posted the photo (or photos) and they refused to pay and were subsequently banned from the forum for it. I also remember reading somewhere that another lawyer who knows enough about copyright law said that they probably got coerced into paying, when in reality, they probably didn't have to. I guess they should have sought that guy out for counsel. Oh well.

I rarely post there anymore myself. I used to contribute a bit, but they wanted me to post all of my work product into their forum, where I'd possibly lose control of my narrative and my own photos and lose having one place to come back and reference my own thoughts. No thanks. Keeping it in one blog makes it easy for me to refer back to or update as needed. They also didn't like that when I linked to my blog, that it has links to some "niche" 2R magazines (vs the 3R-focused OGR mag), lol. I was really shocked that OGR thinks OST and OSR are competition for them. They're each geared to different audiences IMHO. Pretty sure their only real competitor was CTT, and even then, CTT has a different audience than OGR too IMHO.

I noticed a large swath of people left OGR to start another forum on their own. Was interesting to watch, but I guess if you don't like the rules, that's what you do. I'm too busy to post as often as I'd like online at all, but when I do, it'll be here or on Groups.io/Facebook groups that align more with my interests. You get better responses that way, but the tradeoff is lost exposure of 2R O-scale to non-believers. I've also been trying to post more in non-O spaces to show what can be done outside HO.

[ScaleCraft]

As long as you fully understand, Bob, them clowns have not only trolls but spies. I would guess your oft referencing of prayer meetings and resident morons has been reported, a plan formulated, and now you're banished. The blocking of your access is indicative of them wanting to keep you from viewing aforementioned moronic activities and reporting them herein.

Looks like several of us need to peruse their moronic abode and report back here.

Stupid Buggers.

[bob turner]

Yes, Dave - aware of their problems. I was not aware of the DMCA - the Digital Millenium Copyright Act - at the time. I got acquainted with that when trying to get TCA-Western to either attribute or remove my photos. They promised attribution, but a year later they decided it was easier to delete.

I am not an expert - but it is a federal law that gives some protection to internet sites when posters violate copyrights. Before you can sue for damages you must give the folks who run the site the opportunity to mitigate. The device is called a DMCA Takedown notice, and if you follow all the procedures you are only allowed to sue if the ISP does not cause the site to remove the offending material.

In one of the e-mails the moderator stated that OGR had 75 copyright lawyers working for them, and that is how they knew that my photos were not copyright.

That is what I mean by strange - I bet even Facebook does not have 75 lawyers opining on copyrights.

Other Dave - you may be right. I have certainly criticized their rather strange censorship ideas - some guy got beat up recently for posting fairly benign train stuff in the 3-rail tinplate area when the moderators thought it belonged in 3-rail scale. Prayer groups can go anywhere.

(I have nothing against prayer groups, by the way - they are not really train related, which is a very big deal with the moderators for non-prayer non-train stuff. Oh, and I can identify with cat requiems - I have lost maybe ten cats in my life, and it can be a tear-jerker.)

[sarge]

Put 75 lawyers in one room and they'd point in all directions.

That statement has got to be absolute bollocks; there is no way the OGR empire is large enough, even through the Looking Glass, to keep 75 lawyers on retainer to answer copyright questions (talk about a packed court). What kind of idiots do they think we are with that one?

If I'm understanding the picture you are painting, Bob, all they need is one real managing editor worth his eyeshades who would know what is needed is a clearly stated policy already in place defining what constitutes your agreement to their exclusive rights to distribute your material as a condition of your submission. That's what we would really be talking here; assigned rights, not ownership of intellectual property. On the forum, in the mag, makes no difference.

To be fair, Kalmbach and White River are just as ignorant.